It seems impossible to get my elbows up the way they should

It seems impossible to get my elbows up the way they should2010-09-09T21:09:53+00:00

The Hot Yoga Doctor – Free Bikram and Hot Yoga Resources Hot Yoga Doctor Forum The Hot Yoga Poses Pranayama It seems impossible to get my elbows up the way they should

The Hot Yoga Doctor – Free Bikram and Hot Yoga Resources Hot Yoga Doctor Forum The Hot Yoga Poses Pranayama It seems impossible to get my elbows up the way they should

Viewing 6 posts - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
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  • Moi-même
    Participant
    Post count: 7

    Hi Gabrielle,

    I have been practicing Bikram yoga for a little over a year now, and I can’t seem to make any progress towards being able to raise my elbows up above, say, ear level, during pranayama deep breathing. My shoulders, which were quite tight when I first started, have opened up some (I am now able to get my arms “glued” to my ears over my head in poses that require it), but not for the quite different angle in pranayama. My teachers tell me that my shoulders seem relaxed and down the way they should, and that I seem to be doing the exercise correctly, and no one has anything else to say to me about it. No one seems to know what would help me get my elbows up…

    Any idea?

    Also, I could never make complete sense of the seemingly contradictory instruction “get the elbows up while relaxing the shoulders”. What do we mean by “shoulder” in that sentence? (I am quite annoyed by this type of imprecise statement, it seems disempowering for anyone – or at least for me – trying to understand the more precise mechanics of the poses, in order to find a way to become able to do them.) Isn’t it the deltoid muscle that raises the elbow in that position? If the deltoid muscles are contracted, then what do we mean by relaxing the shoulders? I am guessing that the trapezius is what should be relaxed, while contracting the deltoid. Is that it? If so, is that supposed to be sufficient to be able to raise the elbows?

    Thanks a lot in advance,
    Elsa

    Gabrielle (The Hot Yoga Doctor)
    Forum Owner
    Post count: 3048

    Hello toi-meme 😉

    Thanks for the details. I really think the answer probably lies in making more progress in those poses where your arms are over your head.

    It all ties in with what you’ve said. I would like you to try – despite your annoyance 😉 – to explore having your arms over your head WITHOUT gluing them to the side of your head and see what you have to do to relax your shoulders down and back away from your ears. Don’t worry about straightening your arms as a priority. Let them do that ONLY if you can keep your shoulders down and they don’t hunch even the tiniest little bit.

    See what happens for you and come back and tell me. You might think you can’t get arms up and shoulders relaxed happening at the same time, but that’s probably because at the moment your shoulders ARE still too tight to cope with straightening out your arms.

    It’s not really necessary to talk about which muscle does what at this stage. At the moment if you’re looking for opening in the shoulders, try what I suggest here. If you need more description take a look at threads at Half Moon and others discussing tight shoulders. I just popped “tight shoulders” into the search facility above and there are plenty of threads to check out and see if that resonates for you.

    When it does then all of a sudden that seeming contradictory statement will become a huge AHA moment for you! And many of these yoga poses will start to facilitate that opening in the body for you.

    So, go ‘do your homework’ and if you can’t work out what I mean by that, then I can guide you differently. I am pretty sure you’ll work it out. It could very well transform your practice … dramatically.

    Namaste
    Gabrielle 🙂

    Moi-même
    Participant
    Post count: 7

    Thanks a million Gabrielle,
    I will diligently try this during my next few classes and see what happens. I am also working on lifting through my ankles and rotating my shoulders during standing savasana (thanks for those videos!! – your website is truly helpful!). I’ll ask for the masterclass book as my next birthday present!
    Elsa

    Moi-même
    Participant
    Post count: 7

    Hi Gabrielle,

    I have been trying what you suggested (not trying to lock the elbows or glue the arms to the ears for now, and focusing instead on trying to keep the shoulders down and back) for a good 7 classes. Well, for me it proved more complex to apply than it would seem. I took it as a general recommendation for all postures involving arms overhead at one point or another, and I found that it really changes the feel of all those postures (I have not counted them, but there are many!). So, it sort of destabilized the way I was used to feel and understand the postures, and got me in a state of uncertainty.

    Anyway, at first, I felt that I was back at my first hot yoga class, or worse. My elbows ended up so bent that I could barely do the postures at all (that’s what it took to not have the slightest hunch in my shoulders). For example, in half moon’s side bends: I discovered that the tension created by straightening up the elbows and pressing the arms against the sides of the head played a big part in stabilizing the whole posture, and in getting the stretch in the side of the body by pulling with the lower arm on the upper arm – which is only possible if both elbows are straightened. Trying to get a strong, stable, posture and to “pull”,with the elbows bent the way they were, seemed almost impossible. But I persevered anyway in this experiment, and in the next few classes I found a “middle of the road” compromise (recognizing that my first attempt may have been exaggerated), where I would allow some hunch in the shoulders, but make sure I could see a reasonable space between my shoulders and my neck anytime my arms were over my head, and remembering to keep my shoulders down and back as much as possible without undoing the postures completely. I would still not lock the elbows, and my arms were still “in front of my ears” instead of “glued to, or behind my ears” like the dialogue says. But it is still quite difficult to figure out for me, especially in postures like Standing Separate Leg Head To Knee and Half Tortoise, where the arms are supposed to be straight overhead while bending over and pushing on the floor with the fingers. Or in postures like balancing stick where I have always understood that tension created by the effort to press the arms against the side of the head with straight elbows plays a big role in stabilizing the whole posture. Even the sit-up became more of a puzzle. But, with a few classes of practice I was almost able to look like an intermediate student again, and feel that I was more comfortable in the experiment.

    Nevertheless, I still wonder if I understood what you have recommended the way I should have, and what the underlying understanding of the shoulder’s role in the postures is… Because I have to admit, I spoke to three teachers at my studio about this, and none of them seemed to think that it made sense to try to get the shoulders down and back before seeking to lock the elbows. And I was at a loss to explain to them exactly why I was trying this and what it was supposed to accomplish (the underlying logic). One of them said that I should be able to straighten my elbows overhead while relaxing my shoulders (which I can’t), and another one said that it would come with time providing that I follow the dialogue and “tried the right way”, as Bikram says, i.e. straightening the elbows and gluing the arms to the ears.

    For myself, seeing that after a few classes I was able to hunch my shoulders less (if not “not the tiniest bit”) while slowly working my elbows a little straighter and my arms a little further back (instead of what I looked like the first two classes I tried), made me think that I might be able to get somewhere with this – but still I cannot see clearly where exactly…

    So, as you see, I think I am giving this a good try, but I am still somewhat confused and feel that I would benefit from more explanations…

    I hope you are able to make sense of this (long) and fuzzy description of my attempts,

    Thanks a lot in advance,
    Elsa

    Moi-même
    Participant
    Post count: 7

    PS: I have been reading other posts about tight shoulders in the forum (have been doing my homework the best I could), and have tried to use the information to further my understanding… but none of what I read could quite answer the questions that arose from trying it…

    Gabrielle (The Hot Yoga Doctor)
    Forum Owner
    Post count: 3048

    Hi Elsa

    As far as I can surmise from your words you are already making progress.

    I do not believe that doing it in the way that causes the problem could actually fix the problem. So continuing to glue your arms even though it hurts or causes tension actually goes against my philosophy of “trying the right way”. Have faith and just allow this problem that has probably been affecting you for some time (in habits that affect posture, movement and even breathing) to take more than just a few classes to fix.

    It’s actually very complex and involves a huge number of body systems. In workshops and training sessions and private classes (and of course public ones) I have led, people with this problem or similar routinely experience a new or renewed ease in their practice. The fact you have felt a relaxation in that area I hope gives you the confidence to continue on the same path.

    Namaste
    Gabrielle 🙂

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