The Hot Yoga Doctor – Free Bikram and Hot Yoga Resources › Hot Yoga Doctor Forum › The Hot Yoga Poses › Dandayamana Dhanurasana › Ooops another chin to shoulder question…
The Hot Yoga Doctor – Free Bikram and Hot Yoga Resources › Hot Yoga Doctor Forum › The Hot Yoga Poses › Dandayamana Dhanurasana › Ooops another chin to shoulder question…
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Hi Gabrielle
I’ve been trying to figure out the correct technique surrounding bow pose for quite some time now and every once in a while I feel I’m making progress, but then I when try to put together all the bits and pieces I’ve gleaned over the past year and a half, I seem to no longer grasp the essence of the pose. And neither does my body.
As background: I have quite good balance (can complete the pose and hold it but not for the full 20 seconds), kick up quite high, lower my abdomen parallel to the floor, and I can either drop the hip OR touch my chin to shoulder, but not both at the same time. And the latter is precisely what this question is about.
Let me explain: I might be completely misguided, but as far as I’ve been able to gather there seems to be two streams of thought on the correct way to do bow which are not entirely compatible. As indicated above, this division pertains to the emphasis that’s placed on dropping the hip vis a vis touching the chin to shoulder.
It seems that whenever I attend classes where emphasis is placed on touching the chin to the shoulder little to no mention is made of dropping the hip. And frankly it makes sense because aligning the shoulders behind each other – which twists the upper body, creates the backbend and allows one to make the chin-shoulder connection – and in my case also to kick up much higher – runs counter to also dropping the hip. Dropping the hip (and I mean really dropping the hip – as in balancing stick) ‘squares’ the hips and runs counter twisting the upper body in the manner, or to the extent, required to also touch the chin to the shoulder and also kick up high. In my case at least, it seems physically almost impossible.
This ‘take’ on the matter was more or less confirmed recently when I attended a number of classes at another studio where much emphasis is placed on dropping the hip with no mention of chin to shoulder which reminded me of a time at my studio when we were also instructed to drop the hip whilst nowadays it is hardly mentioned. My ‘theory’ is further corroborated by the fact that none of the people currently practising for the national champs at my studio who make the chin to shoulder connection and kick up high drop their hips (significantly) either.
So my question is, which is correct? And is my interpretation, that it’s a question of either/or accurate, or do I simply just have a very long way to go? 🙂 OR: could it be a matter of physique – I am tall and have fairly wide hips, I think.
As you can see, I would really like clarity on this, so your thoughts would be much appreciated. (I hope this makes sense…)
Regards
CHello Ms Cyberry 😉
As usual a detailed question with a lot of thought!
I think that chin on the shoulder is more a proximity instruction rather than one of contact. I actually think it would be more correct to say chin over the shoulder (even though I can assure you I have said on a number of occasions “chin on the shoulder”!).
What I encourage students to do is actually work the front shoulder down at the same time as lengthening and strengthening that front arm forward. Actually when you activate that shoulder correctly the shoulder DROPS away from the chin which should be positioned directly over it!
In other words it’s all aligned on the midline. I also encourage students NOT to drop the chin but to keep the chin parallel to the floor. In this way with the instruction to drop shoulder and chin parallel to the floor or face parallel to the mirror, they ‘get’ that the chin won’t actually touch the shoulder.
So with that explanation of the chin and shoulder relationship I do ‘get’ what you’re saying. When you drop that hip into alignment you can action a noticeable shift of that front shoulder back and down which takes your shoulder out of reach of your chin!!! (Can’t do both but only one at a time! Nice noticing!)
Once you superpose that criterion on the pose it explains their relationship.
I would like to say however that without getting that hip alignment, you may get your leg up higher but it’s at the expense of a good backbend rather than deepening it. It just makes the pose look better but the technique is better with hip down. As I say, you can check into that bilateral sensation in your lower spine! That can disappear if it’s just about getting the leg up but feels great and effective when you drop the hip.
Does that make sense? Come back and wax lyrical…
Namaste
Gabrielle 🙂Hello Gabrielle,
Thank you so much for your reply and yes! – it makes perfect sense! I have found that when I stretch/reach the arm forward the shoulder drops by itself, but so does my chin – not drastically but it does so almost ‘naturally’ – which is why I went along with it. I have not been to class much this week (flu) but once when I tried lifting my chin the whole posture ‘imploded’. mmm… As for dropping the hip – I certainly understand and agree that it’s very rewarding when you get this right. However it is also rather nice to lift the leg up high – and it helps me to stretch forward more (that bow and arrow feeling).
But I realise that even if a posture is set up well and feels rather good it does not necessarily follow that it’s also CORRECT! So, all things considered, I am inclined to conclude that the area I need to work on in order to ‘balance out’ this posture is: The Backbend!! I suspect that deepening the bend (with dropped hip) will allow me to keep that leg up whilst giving me the stability to reach arm forward, drop shoulder with chin placed correctly. Quite a challenge!
Forgive me for this monologue, but I just want to check – am I on the right track thinking the above? And if so, are there exercises to make a stiff(ish) back more supple?
OK, have a great weekend!
Regards,
CHi Cyberry
Just wondering if you only get that bow and arrow feeling when you ‘lift the leg up high’.
And the other thing I wonder is what happens for your pose to implode. Because for me, lifting the head makes the pose feel all the more stable, graceful and liberating.
Namaste
Gabrielle 🙂Good morning Gabrielle – early here. In answer to your question, yes I only get the bow and arrow effect when my leg is up high and I stretch my arm way forward. I think the reason I imploded was because I made a concerted effort to lit my chin to be parallel to the floor, and actually strained my neck to do so which affected my balance.
RE my previous post, I thought that focusing more attention to my backbend would shift and concentrate energy there, freeing my leg lift and stretch forward. Don’t know if this makes sense, it’s a bit hard to explain. It’s been going well lately with dropping the hip and lifting the leg but at a given point, when I drop my torso properly, I lose the chin shoulder alignment.
Regards,
CHi C
So how would you describe what it feels like when you’re not getting the bow and arrow effect? And does that mean that when you consider yourself to be in good alignment with hip down and so on that you’re not getting that feeling at all?
Namaste
Gabrielle 🙂Hi Gabrielle,
I can’t say for sure, but I am inclined to say no, I don’t. I will be more attentive the next couple of classes to make sure and then I’ll get back to you!
Regards,
CyberryHi Gabrielle
Thought I’d give you some feedback even though there’s not much to report, I’m afraid!
The past few weeks of practice have generally been somewhat uneven.
The few times I managed a good standing bow – proper alignment and holding it – was not accompanied by the ‘bow and arrow’ feeling – except once I think when I also had a good backbend.
Suppose you could call it work in progress. 🙂
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