Rebecca

This is why I stopped Bikram. Extreme forward bends, despite what the instructors say, are not in the “natural range of motion” for our bodies.

From what you describe, it sounds like you have a herniated disk in your lumbar spine. The clincher was when you said you got a little relief from sitting on sit bones and slightly back bending. That’s because the pressure on the disk is relieved in backbends, and greatly increased in forward bends.

Chiropractors and physical therapists will give you a series of exercises to do that will help over time. It may take a long time. The exercises usually involve lying on your stomach and lifting your legs one at a time and then both at a time, plus a number of others. You might have to avoid forward bends for a time until the disk begins to heal.

If you get temporary relief from such exercises, or from lying flat and letting your lower spine sag, as in lying between two pillows or draping yourself across a big chair with upholstered arms, and letting your lower spine sag toward the seat cushion, the diagnosis is pretty assured.

But of course I am not a doctor! I only check back to this forum occasionally so that if I see things like “acute lower back pain,” I can chime in to keep people from panicking and going through lots of MRI’s, treatments and such needlessly.

I have posted a number of times about this situation on this forum, so if you search “herniated disk” you will find more information.

Remember there is an industry out there that wants you to think you need to pay them a lot of money over this. Stay calm. REST, at the early point you’re at now, is incredibly important. I didn’t rest, but kept going to yoga, doing yard work, etc. etc., hoping to work through it. Very stupid of me.

Be careful. Do a little research online but do not panic!

I’d like to see a lot more discussion of disk herniation on this site. It’s a profoundly distressing thing and impacts sitting, sleeping, everything you do.

I try to be balanced in my approach to anything like this. Here are my reasons for sticking with backbends (although forward bends must be re-introduced, as I’ll discuss):

If you look at a diagram of a herniated disk, you will see that the two lumbar on either side of the herniated disk are sometimes shown in a bend. When we bend forward, the inside (toward the body) edges of the lumbar move closer together (allowing disk to protrude out backwards). When we bend backward, the back edges of the lumbar move closer together, theoretically creating more room on the inside for the disk to go back in. Obviously that’s a simplification. The reason a disk always herniates either to the left or to the right (right most common, for some reason), is that there is a strong band of ligament along the back of the spine that prevents the disk from coming straight out.

I think this is what complicates things. The herniation is not “straight back,” so who knows what manner of movement or exercise or bending will result in the “right” thing for the disk.

I have found backbends restorative during the day when the pain (mine is L5-S1) becomes bothersome. Sometimes I even lie face down over the two arms of a big upholstered chair, letting my spine curve down toward the seat cushion. Works like magic, but unfortunately not a permanent cure. Still, over time, I think the backbends do provide the best overall correction we can hope for.

That said, forward bending IS important. NOT forward bending at all (which is what doctors tell you to adhere to for about a year after a herniation) can bring on its own problems with shortened muscles (like the psoas) that, ironically, cause more pain through lack of stretching them. BUT we must re-learn HOW to bend forward. Hunching forward, like we do at the computer and in cars) in a C-shape bend (or slouching in soft furniture in a C-bend) tend to bring on the modern epidemic of herniated disks. We must, to forward bend correctly, stand straight, lengthen the spine, ensure the lordosis (small curve at base of spine), and bend forward like an African rice harvester … FROM THE HIPS. As well, we can bend one knee and go down, or widen our stance and go down from the hip.

Re-introducing forward bends by lying on the back and bring one, then the other, knee up to the chest and holding there, while pressing the base of the spine toward the floor, is a good place to start.

All that said, I do think each individual person has to figure out for themselves what works. I have found the multiple other things (muscle tension, trigger point tenderness, etc. etc.) arise from the constant discomfort, and then the fear of the discomfort returning when you finally get relief for a while. Some wonderful books by a Dr. Sarno discuss the ways we won’t allow ourselves to truly relax once we get a “diagnosis,” despite the fact that many herniated disks show up on MRI’s and X-rays when the patient went in for something else. They had NO SYMPTOMS from the herniation. But once we KNOW we have it … presto. We think about it all the time.

I’d love to hear more about what you all think and have experienced.

Just a little sharing of personal experience … glute/piriformis pain can be caused by muscle tension. Find trigger points … poke at the glute until you find a really painful place, then hold … several minutes if you can … then move pressure slightly in case the trigger point has shifted. Hold again. The trigger point pain (knot) will “dissolve” if you keep with this.

Keep a couple of tennis balls on hand in the car, near chairs, etc. and pop them under the trigger point while you’re sitting.

Gabrielle has a lovely video somewhere on the site that shows lying flat with a small balance ball under the sacrum … you will find that doing this for 10-15 minutes or so results in even breathing, and a huge relaxing of all the muscles around and especially on either side of the sacrum.

Finally, I have found great, great help from shoes of the type with a “curved” sole (MBT brand, or Skechers) that eliminates heel strike and forces you to use the glutes/calf muscles instead of banging down on the heel as you walk. These might help you at work, and are great for longer walks. Our glutes and big leg muscles ARE big because they are supposed to take most of the strain of walking and standing OFF the spine, but our modern culture tends to produce sitting and standing and walking habits (slouching, hunching, and slamming) that COMPRESS the spine and cause all kinds of muscle tension throughout the lower body.

Just from my experience; not an expert. But I know what the pain is like you’re describing, and hey, I found some stuff that helps it.

I stopped yoga for 3 weeks due to my yoga studio being closed because of demonstrations here (Bangkok), and during that time my back started to feel better. Once back, it’s hurting again.

Well, you have EXCELLENT verification that the yoga is a huge factor. Listen to that! Do not be like me … keeping on, thinking the yoga would cure me.

The back tightness that happens when I’m seated is relieved a lot when I remain seated, push my chest forward and butt out (still seated).

If there’s a herniated disk condition, you get relief by doing that because you’re creating an exaggerated lordosis (indented curve of the lower spine), which relieves pressure on the disk that is bulging to the rear. It’s kind of like a seated mini-backbend.

I, too, hope you can keep doing Bikram yoga, but if you find your condition improving by doing exercises for herniated disks, and avoiding forward bends (and seated twists), you probably do have a herniation and will have to make MANY SIGNIFICANT modifications to the poses in order to keep doing the yoga. I couldn’t do extensive modifying in my studio, so I stopped. As you learned from the “Not good for everyone” thread, stretching type yoga may not be for you. Stretching does not strengthen. A chief function of muscles, tendons and ligaments is to hold bony structures in place.

Finally, if you think you might have a herniated disk, please please study up on it and do the things that will help it heal. If you don’t, you may one day face surgery. I am desperately trying to avoid that now.

It’s post #15 on the “Bikram Yoga and Philosophy” thread. Not exactly like I remembered it, but interesting.

Hi! I think you have answered several of your own questions, really … you have stated your concerns quite thoughtfully and thoroughly. Others will have more input, but I will offer support for the fact that indeed, Bikram yoga is not for everyone and may not be for you.

Unless we modify like crazy (which is usually actively discouraged), we can definitely do damage. (Of course, we can do damage by modifying, too!) Iyengar yoga is more postural (strengthening) as opposed to Bikram, which is more stretching. Not everyone needs heat-intensive stretching … if your ligaments are of the type that are already “loose” you may wish to focus on other types of exercise and keep stretching to the minimum.

You have said it best! ” … it is true we all have different issues with our bodies and possess varying degrees of athleticism.”

For safety’s sake, I wish more emphasis was placed on that truth in Bikram’s approach to new students.

Even though I have stopped going to Bikram yoga, I still check in here … I am always curious what people are experiencing.

I stopped because of increasing back/buttock/leg pain which turned out to be caused a herniated L5-S1, and a bulging L4-L5. I was fully fine, functional and hiking, walking and active, with NO initiating “event” that “caused” the problem.

I, too, used to wonder if Bikram yoga was harmful to me. After a number of different doctor visits, an MRI, and physical therapy, I now believe, through the knowledge I’ve acquired from these professionals, that Bikram yoga may have either opened the door to my injury or been the direct cause of it.

Ligaments surrounding the spinal cord can be overstretched, weakening their ability to hold the lumbar spine and its inter-lumbar discs in place. Extreme forward bends and backward bends, though they are supposed to “counteract” one another for a balanced stretch, can contribute to this weakening, leading to bulging and/or herniated discs. This is a serious condition that, if you are not extremely lucky, can require surgery or years of discomfort and life-altering limitations.

I am currently in physical therapy and am seeing some improvement, but I am not being encouraged to believe I will ever be 100% in my lower spine again.

This is a serious injury, and I caution people about it. Saying whether Bikram yoga hurts or helps is really, I think, an individual thing, however. Some people are “tight” and some people are “loose” when it comes to tendons, ligaments and fascia; those who are already “loose” might want to go to more postural yoga styles like Iyengar, rather than the stretching style like Bikram.

I am no longer even slightly inclined to believe “no pain, no gain.” The overarching direction in recuperative exercises is, “If it hurts, stop.” Some people think hurting means they are extra alive, or extra strong, or extra determined, or will live extra long. The truth may be that hurting may be … hurting you, perhaps forever. Please be careful.

I am so thankful for this thread! It’s a real catalyst for some of the thoughts I’ve had lately about this practice. What good suggestions, all.

I am in Shoshana’s age/stage. I see my endocrinologist yearly to adjust thyroid hormone dose. For the last couple of years, I’ve had some hormone level tests added to the thyroid one. They vary wildly. This is a roller-coaster time hormonally in our lives, as you ladies have already noted.

The endocrinolgist’s advice for peri- and menopausal years (unless there are intolerable symptoms from hormone flux) is to ride it out, but get lots of exercise, drink water, do something centering like yoga or meditation, and eat as healthily as you can. Curb sugar intake, avoid drugs.

Also, look at the areas in your life where you are frustrated, underappreciated, inappropriately directing energy, etc. Make changes to nourish yourself now, instead of ignoring your needs in favor of others’ needs. This is the time to recapture or re-invent our own lives, and let others live theirs. Our brain actually changes in menopause, and we become more curious, creative, and free-thinking!

As for Bikram yoga, it is unquestionably INTENSE. I am evolving into NOT GOING when I sense a SURGE or DROP in my mood, feelings, joints, etc. When I feel strong and balanced, I go to practice. This thread helps me see why this evolution took place.

Again, so grateful for all the comments here.

My condolences, also.

I’ve also noticed that sometimes it seems like when I decide to commit and write The Big Check (as opposed to paying per session), that’s when life becomes too weird to allow regular attendance. But I don’t think we’re “tempting fate” or anything like that to pay ahead. Life events are unfolding whether we do yoga or not. But like the yoga itself, we need to listen … and see if it feels right to make a financial commitment or keep things a little more immediate for the time being.

I am currently in a pay-per-session mode and it feels fine, as I am aiming for two sessions a week, three if possible.

I’ve been curious about something for a long time but haven’t investigated it …

In the locked-knee poses, I can usually do fine as long as I look at the floor under me, or at the floor just slightly ahead of me, or even at the bottom of the front mirror … but the instructors are always saying “Look at your knee in the mirror” and the moment I do, I fall out!

Why is this?