hyperextended knee

[abelanger26]

#1378

Hi,

Here’s my struggle… my standing leg is so hyper extended in that pose. (see my profile pic) I’m trying to correct it but seems like it’s always that way. Any tips?

[fraseram]

#4512

It seems like when people do this it is to compensate for weaker muscles. I had a similar issue of leaning on my hip after I broke it because my adductors were not strong enough to support me. What helped me was standing w/ my toes and heels together and hips in alignment. Then engage the quads and the muscles in one leg, then lift the other foot off the ground and just feel STRONG on the one leg. The other one that helped was sitting in a chair and lifting one leg up and holding it out parallel as long as I could.
Now my leg is strong and solid being supported by muscle and NOT my skeletal system. ( which is where people get hip, knee and foot pain in these poses)

[abelanger26]

#4529

Thanks Robert for the email on how to post pics. Im guessing it was a problem with my internet or something. At work it works fine!

So here’s the pic a bit bigger than the profile picture.

[Robert Scanlon (Webmaster)]

#4532

Yey! You got it working – so glad. Now we can get down to the business of tips … Gabrielle is traveling back from Thailand today/tomorrow so she’ll be a little while before you hear anything.

Robert

[blindbetsy]

#4653

Hello,

I just wanted to re-ignite this thread as I have a similar issue with my standing knee (no pic I’m afraid!). I am very flexible through the hamstrings and back of the knee, and so even when my knee is locked with all the muscles in the thigh contracted and the knee cap lifted my leg looks “hyperextended.” This is something that I have been aware of since I first started practising 2 years ago, and I have had to really focus on engaging the quadriceps and pushing my big toe into the ground in order to lock my knee properly – it was a long process and it was a year before I even attempted kicking out in standing head to knee.

I know this is somewhat expanding on the original question posed here, but I have found this forum to be really informative and would appreciate your input on “hyperextension.” If the knee is locked correctly, does it matter that it is not straight? Could this just be the way my body is, or is there something I should be doing to fix my alignment?

Thank you! 🙂

[abelanger26]

#4654

Hi,

I spoke with one of my teachers about it. She went and did advanced class with this lady in Boston who’s very close to Bikram himself. She did ask her some questions about this because it’s not uncommon to see it in class. She says as long as the knee is properly locked it’s okay. It takes 7 years to correct. My teacher then told me she had a big hyper extension like me and it’s starting to get straight. She’s been doing it for 4 years. How true is that?

[blindbetsy]

#4663

Wow, 7 years to fix it! Was it Diane Ducharme that your teacher saw in Boston, and did your teacher say how she has been making progress towards straightening her own knee?

[abelanger26]

#4664

Yes it is Diane. My teacher’s hyper extension was bad also. It’s much better now after 3 years of practice. It’s just very important to engage the quadriceps. Do not push in that hyper extension. I don’t know what Gabriel has to say about it. This is what I’ve heard. I work in physio and my physiotherapist told me to bend the knee in order not to be. I find it goes against everything I learned. At the same time, I don’t find that my quad is engaged at all like that.

[blindbetsy]

#4667

I am the same – it doesn’t feel like my leg is properly locked, and the quadriceps fully engaged unless I am in the hyperextension that seems natural to my body. I can engage the muscles above my knee to raise the knee cap, but that doesn’t seem “locked” in the same way. Plus, doing so affects so many other things in my body – alignment, engagement of other muscles etc. hmmm

[Gabrielle (The Hot Yoga Doctor)]

#4668

Hi

You are so right. This is a multi-faceted problem. It is not only about how your muscles are out of balance in their use (and therefore leading toward dysfunction etc) but your joints from the ground up are not stacking in best alignment. I certainly would be doing what I can to fix it.

I would not be satisfied with a 3 or 7 year timetable for fixing this. And I would strongly recommend getting some assistance in rehabilitation that goes beyond simply locking your knee in the hot yoga studio. I know that the common belief is that the yoga fixes everything. 😉 I think that is true for a huge percentage of problems but I ask you to consider looking beyond the studio.

There are different reasons for hyperextension which could include muscles weakness (on either the front or back of the leg or both) and damage to knee ligaments. Maybe you have some insight or intuition into what is going on in your body.

With each of these things there are exercises that you would be able to do. Locking your knee will certainly strengthen your quadriceps muscles but how are you going to address the lack of strength in the hamstrings? Would it be worth seeing a sports physio or personal trainer or someone in a gym or rehab who can give you the right exercises. There maybe some overlap in the exercises designed for those with ligamental damage.

Namaste
Gabrielle 🙂

[blindbetsy]

#4671

Hi Gabrielle,

Thank you for the prompt and helpful response. I have had conflicting information about this – some of my teachers have said it’s just how my body is (which is clearly true!) and as long as the knee is locked it’s not a problem, while others have expressed concern. Certainly, for me, I can feel that it affects the angle of my hips and pelvis, where I put my weight and other alignment issues. I am very loose through the hamstrings – which is nice in the forward bends – but after reading your reply it occurs to me that this looseness may in fact be weakness. I guess I’ll start looking into how to retrain my body!

Thanks again,

Beth

[enlightenme]

#5563

HI,

I have been wanting to ask about hyperextended knees and how it affects the balancing poses. I have always had hyperextended knees and both of children have them. It appears to be genetic? I have just discovered that I really have to concentrate on pushing the big toe into the mat and that I had been only locking out the outside of my leg but not the inside (which happens when I really push down that big toe) if that makes any sense. It has the sensation that the inside of hamstring is weaker than the outside and up until now, I didn’t know there was this other part I was missing. I have a terrible time with hip alignment and the left side is worse than the right. My daughter is a dancer and since she has the hyperextended knees she has been guided by her dance instructor to have a tiny bend in her leg so it looks straight. I am wondering about hyperextended knees and if it is a weakness you can be born with. I was going to ask if there was anything in particular one should consider for proper alignment with hyperextended knees but the answer appears to be to seek physical therapy. Is this correct?

Thanks,
Patty

P.S. Love the masterclass

[Gabrielle (The Hot Yoga Doctor)]

#5564

Hi Patty

Love the PS 😉 – thank you!

A hyperextension can be due to many things: Regardless of the cause, what presents is an imbalance in your body where the hamstrings could actually be needing quite a bit of strength building. Here’s what I wrote elsewhere:

Concerning your problem with your leg: some balance of strength is generally what is needed for situations like this. It may be worth doing some gym work to help you strengthen your quads in an environment where they have machines that are designed for that which will also help you avoid the hyperextension.

I don’t know if the weakness can be genetic. It seems to be a result of dysfunction. If your hips are hurting then now is the time for action!!! Can you tell me if you tend to stand weighting both your feet equally, or do you lean into one leg? What about when you walk do you tend to walk with pigeon toes, feet pointing straight on or toes out?

How does it feel when you semi-engage your quadriceps during your yoga so that your leg doesn’t hyperextend? Your hamstrings are very involved in your balance so since they are weak, it is little surprise that you have difficulty in your balancing poses.

I am interested in your thoughts and how this resonates for you. I am positive there are hamstring exercises that you could do at home. Go search on YouTube for things like single leg knee bends. The machines at a gym may be a faster route for you because of the ability to target the hamstrings easily with very little instruction. A PT may take a few appointments for you to be assessed and then have your follow up.

Namaste
Gabrielle 🙂

[enlightenme]

#5576

Hi G.,

Thank you for your Hot Dr. assistance as I have been struggling with my issues for a long time. I stopped all of my other activities, Astanga Yoga, weight lifting and bike riding because I knew I was seriously out of balance due to a sciatic nerve problem a couple of years ago where I couldn’t walk after yoga or bike riding because the pain shot all the way down my left leg. If I sat very long, I couldn’t get up and walk, especially after exercise. I went to PT and they told me I would have it the rest of my life (HA) and I did the exercises which did include hamstrings (laying on my back with heals on the big ball). The pain stopped but there has always been a lingering pain in the back of my left thigh which I managed by stretching.

I started doing hot yoga and I thought I was progressing nicely. I ordered your Masterclass and found out I wasn’t doing a lot of the poses correct, especially the balance poses. I had to take myself all the way back to basic stuff as in just standing there and locking out the leg in standing head to knee. With the Masterclass, I found that the reason I was doing the poses is that I was doing them incorrect.

To answer your questions: I am just now starting to pull up on the kneecap to lock my leg. It has taken a long time to finally feel it. I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to also push my knee back at the same time. If I lock the leg and pull up it seems to reduce the hyperextension. It seems I weight both feet evenly when I walk- and I walk with toes straight. I do know in the balance poses I didn’t weight both feet evenly until your instruction to do so. I did the single leg bends and they felt good (weak but good) If you have other specific exercises I would gladly utilize them.

The other thing that has been going on is that for awhile I had horrible knee pain (above the knee cap) since I started locking out the knee. I used to be able to do all of the knee poses without pain. For example, fixed firm pose used to be easy and then it became so painful that all I could do was sit on my knees. Now, I am able to do fixed firm pose again and even hold for long holding (no arch in the back-almost flat back on the ground). The last knee pose that I can’t do is awkward pose without pain. I used to be able to go all the way down without pain. I couldn’t stop on the way down but at least I got down there without pain or bending to much forward. Now, I have to bend forward to help myself down because it hurts a lot above the knee cap. I can manage to prop myself back up, though and into the squat with my knees together, of course. I am back at tree pose, too where I can bend down and sit on the heel as the pain is diminishing. Speaking of tree pose, my hips hard to keep level when standing on one leg.

One more thing, in the balance poses I have to really work to push the big toe in and my hip outward in my standing leg-to even the hips. The left side is worse as in bow and standing on my left leg, sometimes all I can do is stand there holding my bent leg.

I will do the single leg bends and anything else you suggest. Thank you for your help.

Patty

P.S. I hope you decide to do a teacher’s training.

[blindbetsy]

#5580

Hi Patty,

Just thought I’d chime in here because I have been trying to sort out how to work with my hyperextension for the last few months. Like you, I have clinical hyperextenson in both knees – and also have hypermobility in other joints. And I have strong quads. It is in fact possible for me to “lock” my knee by lifting the knee cap and engaging the entire quadriceps muscle while still being in hyperextension. This is because it is a structural issue; it is about the laxness of the joints themselves.

I have received a lot of advice for this, some of it useful and some not. I am a bit concerned that you have been having knee pain, and so wanted to share my experience with you. I have had teachers tell me that the most important thing is to keep my leg straight so for a few months I was starting with my leg slightly bent, then lifting through the quads, grounding down with the ball of the foot and stopping once the leg was straight. And it certainly looked right – perfectly straight, lifted through the knee cap, solid, one piece etc. However, it didn’t feel locked to me. And it caused a lot of pain through my hamstrings and the tendons at the back of my leg – not the discomfort that comes with effort, but actual pain.

The best advice I have received was from a senior Bikram teacher (by that I mean that she has been teaching for over 2 decades). She said that the way to change my body and fix the hyperextension is not to keep the leg straight, but to work the joint through the full range (backward) and then use the quadricep muscle to “pull” the knee/leg into alignment. The leg still won’t be straight, because it will take years to change the body. But it will happen over time. This feels the safest in my body.

I am hearing you about the hip alignment – this is such an issue for me because of the hyperextension and also severely pronating ankles. I have been paying real attention to keeping my knees forward and tailbone tucked under which helps. Also, in the forward bends like Standing Separate Leg Stretching, I have been making effort to keep me pelvis in line – rather then tilting it down which I was just doing automatically. This has been making a difference; and my hips are telling me about it!

I hope you find the strategy that works best for you with your hyperextension. It may take a bit of trial and error, but I am inclined to think you should NOT have knee pain. As Bikram says, “you can mess with the gods, but don’t mess with your knees!”

Good luck.

Beth

[enlightenme]

#5586

Beth,

Thank you very much for taking the time to write out your experiences you have had with hyperextended knees as I would never have gained the information you shared any other way. It also helps to validate my own experiences.

I appreciate your comments about the knee pain as I am unclear if I have pain because I am changing the structure of my knees/legs or if I am making a mess of myself. The line can be unclear to me between riding the edge and injury.

When I first started, I kept a slight bend in my legs also and appeared to be doing the balancing poses pretty good for a beginner. When i started locking the leg and aligning my hips, I quickly had to go back to the basics of the poses and fell out easily.

Thank you, again, for your advise.

Patty

[thedancingj]

#5632

Beth,

Just commenting here to say, YES YES YES YES YES. And yes! To your last post.

All the other hyper- people out there, please listen to Beth, cause she is right on. 🙂

My legs are the same, and they gradually are getting straighter. It’s the slow way, but it’s the RIGHT way, which is all you can ever do!

Best,
Juliana

P.S. I heart Diane forever and ever…

[Gabrielle (The Hot Yoga Doctor)]

#5660

Hi Patty

There are a number of other issues with your knees in there which have to do with other poses. It must be reassuring for you that your sciatic related pain has diminished with your practice and your hyperextension seems to be responding well. Keep up the single leg bends (as you said you would 😉 ) and either Google some other exercises for video examples or go see someone at a gym or a personal trainer or a physical therapist.

I would like to ask you about your Fixed Firm pose. It is great that you are no longer getting pain in your knees here. Are you intentionally trying to flatten your back on the floor. One is supposed to create a beautifully and firmly abutted bridge or arch in the spine. This in itself could take some pressure off your knees.

I think that you should also avoid Toe Stand until you have pinpointed what is going on in your knees.

It has been 2 weeks since your pose (buried among other posts) and I wonder what experience you are having with your knee now. Is it still painful on the front above your knee?

I hope to hear from you soon

Namaste
Gabrielle 🙂

[enlightenme]

#5691

Hi again,

Thank you for your help, it is really appreciated. I have been in physical therapy for 3 weeks because of the knee pain. The exercises I have been doing are wall sits, leg extensions on the machine while holding a ball between my knees, inner thigh leg lifts with 2 1/2 lb ankle weights and calve stretches on a slant board. My yoga has improved since I started, especially the balancing poses. I don’t do awkward pose or toe stand as those are the ones that hurt. In awkward, I just go down as low as I can with my back straight and stop where I can hold it. My doctor, whom I saw for the referral, told me a had loose knee caps. Structural issues, weak quads and inner thighs and too much body weight seem to have all conspired against my knees.

In fixed firm pose I am not trying to lie flat and can barely get a slight arch going.

I am really excited about the improvements I am making since I started the PT. Your instruction coupled with the PT is making a huge difference. I use your 90 minute class from the master class for my practice. Have you thought about recording some more 90 minute classes as I would like to mix it up a little?

Thank you, again for all of your help. I love your work.

Patty

[Gabrielle (The Hot Yoga Doctor)]

#5692

Hi Patty

That is great news. You must feel so reassured with your progress.

Here’s something that I would like you to do. In your standing poses keep an even footprint and try – at least until you have some more strength in your quads and stability in your leg – to keep best alignment – ESPECIALLY when the instruction is to bring the weight back into the heels. In other words, NO weight into the heels for half moon and any other pose where your leg or legs are straight.

Thank you for your feedback. Yes, I will be recording some more classes very soon.

Namaste
Gabrielle 🙂

[jaymeleec]

#5778

I’ve been reading through this thread and I am relieved to see I’m not the only one with questions about my knees. I wouldn’t consider myself to have bad knees, but I know they can be sensitive. My alighnment is off for sure. I stand all day at work with my arms at shoulder hight or higher, and I also have a tendency to lean on my right leg with that leg locked. It is very easy for me to lock my knees, but when I do they look very hyperextended. I am also a little knock kneed. I’m wondering if some of the other people out here with hyperextension problems have knock knees as well? Strangly, I’ve noticed my cousin has the same problem, knock knees and hyperextension, so I have a slight belief it could be hereditary. To make matters worse…I also have a very high arch in my foot. LOL. So any way, to get to the point, I feel like I balance best when my leg is hyperextended being knock kneed because my knees meet closer in the middle which in turn puts more presure on the inside of my standing leg, which in turn puts more weight in my high arches on the inside so I’m not teetering on the outside. I’ve never felt like this could be right for my body, just like it never felt right to force my toes and heels together, but I balance better. I’m more concerned with alighning my body, so today in class I practiced pulling up on the knee until straight, and then going into my standing bow. It was a bit wobbly, but I fell out of it every time I hear “Jayme! Lock your leg!” I’m confused…Sorry this post is so long.

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